Author Topic: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes  (Read 1278 times)

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Offline blazer1234

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X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« on: November 25, 2011, 01:49:34 PM »
Hello Simfellows,

As we all know X-plane is comming up soon, and I was curious about the ATC and AI
now I quote something out of an interview below:

So now my question is: what does it mean for the AI- community , will we have a good and actual AI world as in Fs9/FSX or?
And if yes?  will Alpha-India involved in producing AI gear for X-plane10?

Yours Sincerely

André




As well, the X-Plane 10 engine is dynamic. I have now, for X-Plane 10, made it so that each flight model runs on its own CPU. Here is what that means: If you have 20 processors, then you can run 20 AI planes with basically zero frame-rate hit. Crank the number of planes up to 20 in X-Plane 10 and watch what happens to the frame-rate. Try it now: Set the number of planes to 1 and look at the frame-rate. Then set it to 20 and look again. See the hit? That is because all of those flight models are running on One CPU, one after the other, in order. With X-Plane 10, each flight model can run on its own CPU, all at the same timeâ?¦ if you have 20 CPU's, running 20 planes it is no slower than running 1.

Now, most of you don't have 20 CPU's, but if you have a quad-chip dual-core (per chip) Mac like I do, then that is EIGHT coresâ?¦ and they can handle 20 flight models while hardly breaking a sweatâ?¦ the frame-rate impact of 20 planes is small: We have eight cores splitting the work! As well, we have optimized the RAM-use of each airplane to be considerably lower. This means that there is less RAM impact to having 20 planes flying at once, making it much more
feasible to have 20 planes at one time. So, X-Plane 10 will use less RAM, and give more frame-rate, than version 9 when loaded up with planes (all other settings being equal, of course).

So why do I care about all these other planes so much? Well, we have hired a full-time programmer just for the new ATC code for X-Plane 10. This new ATC will control all the planes in the sky, including yours, to deliver incredible ATC realism. Using pre-recorded WAV files, you will hear the controller giving instructions to the other planes, and see them following those instructions on your TCAS and out the window. The other planes will all take-off, land, taxi, stop on the ramp, miss approaches and do touch-n-goes, all while taking commands from ATC, all of which are audible on your radio.

Offline FMCS

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 02:12:28 PM »
Been following this for a while and it really doesn't sound very promising! The problem is that they continue to concentrate (much like MSFS) on the UI aircraft used for AI, hence that ridiculous 20 AI aircraft maximum with 20 cores.  I have chimed in on various occasions at their forums at X-plane and those on Avsim concerning the use of our AI or even something like Ultimate Traffic which shouldn't cripple the frames but never get anything too positive (mostly a wait and see  ::rolleyes: ) . It would be a shame as X-Plane 10 shows some real promise and the graphics, scenery and sloped runways are absolutely out of this world..

Also, concentrating on that 20 AI limit makes me think that the entire ATC might be designed to handle far lower amounts of traffic than we expect to have. And that the mess created by such a system would make us all run back to FS9 or FSX!.. I really hope not..  :o


 ;)

Frank

Offline blazer1234

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 02:26:19 PM »
Thanks Frank,

Yes the UI aircraft used as AI  part did worried me also  ???

Thanks for your effort in case of questioning the possibillity of better use of AI-traffic in their and Avsim forums.
And as we speak in the famous legendary words: Wait and see.


André

Offline Nils

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 02:40:14 PM »
Thanks Frank,

Yes the UI aircraft used as AI  part did worried me also  ???

Well it didn't have a big impact on FPS in MSFS, the also used their 737s, Dashs, 777s etc.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 02:42:10 PM by Nils »
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Offline blazer1234

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 02:44:08 PM »

Well it didn't have a big impact on FPS in MSFS, the also used their 737s, Dashs, 777s etc.

Nils,

As an AI-addict , just like me , I hardly can imagne you will make the switch for the AI-possibillity that X-plane 10 has to offer?  :D

Anyway, here a nice developer  point of view

http://www.x-plane.com/blog/2011/10/atc-description-of-a-system-pt-1/

« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 02:45:45 PM by blazer1234 »

Offline Nils

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 02:59:02 PM »
Nils,

As an AI-addict , just like me , I hardly can imagne you will make the switch for the AI-possibillity that X-plane 10 has to offer?  :D

Well, it wouldn't be a problem for me if the amount of traffic will be limited to 20. But for having larger numbers I would indeed prefer AI-optimized models :D
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Offline flying finn

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 11:22:22 AM »
It seems that MS Flight will be an arcade came that has no AI, ATC and will only feature Hawaii.
http://airdailyx.blogspot.com/2011/09/microsoft-flight-not-on-hold.html

Unless Microsoft changes pricing and licensing of Lockheed PREPAR3D it think X-plane 10 is the only option besides sticking with Fs2004. Question is how I ever can change my AI world with 1000+ plans to it.

Or perhaps free and open Flightgear is the way of the future?
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Online Saturn_29

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 11:41:33 AM »
It seems that MS Flight will be an arcade came that has no AI, ATC and will only feature Hawaii.
http://airdailyx.blogspot.com/2011/09/microsoft-flight-not-on-hold.html

Unless Microsoft changes pricing and licensing of Lockheed PREPAR3D it think X-plane 10 is the only option besides sticking with Fs2004. Question is how I ever can change my AI world with 1000+ plans to it.

Or perhaps free and open Flightgear is the way of the future?

Well if that is true I will be staying with FS9 and FSX.

Offline benclark

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 02:05:25 PM »
The 20 aircraft limit has nothing to do with the fact they are using UI aircraft models, instead its because X-Plane have decided to allow each aircraft to operate its own user flight simulation so that you'll see the AI reacting to wind and everything else exactly the same way your own aircraft will. This is very realistic as being able to follow an aircraft on finals and see him suddenly have to deal with crosswinds would be amazing and very realistic and it gives you the chance to re-plan your own landing, but at the same time only seeing 20 aircraft at any airport other than the smaller airports is ridiculous. Where I used to work at Gatwick wasn't a large airport (although it is the worlds busiest single runway), but we still had more than 4 times that many gates and dozens more ramp spots, seeing less than 20 aircraft parked at any one time was unusual let alone the aircraft operating at any one time.

I guess we'll wait and see but if the AI is better than it sounds and possible to work with then I'll be supporting it.

Offline jesse_reid

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 11:24:31 PM »
It seems that MS Flight will be an arcade came that has no AI, ATC and will only feature Hawaii.
http://airdailyx.blogspot.com/2011/09/microsoft-flight-not-on-hold.html

Unless Microsoft changes pricing and licensing of Lockheed PREPAR3D it think X-plane 10 is the only option besides sticking with Fs2004. Question is how I ever can change my AI world with 1000+ plans to it.

Or perhaps free and open Flightgear is the way of the future?

Well if that is true I will be staying with FS9 and FSX.

Agreed, I was planning to create my next computer around Flight, but now I will design it to allow smoother running of FSX, Il-2 Cliffs of Dover, and Rise of Flight.
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Offline vc-10

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 07:02:58 PM »
I don't think I believe some random guy posting anonymously. I can't see Microsoft cutting out the existing fan base- I think we probably make up too much of the market. They certainly won't be cutting out all addons- they're making huge amounts of money off XBox Live stuff by selling stuff that others have created, and taking a cut. I could see a 'Flight Store' sort of thing, where 3rd party developers upload their work to Microsoft's store, where it then is installable easily into the sim, from the sim itself.

Offline jhaley101

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 07:12:03 PM »
Exactly, this is BS.   I have heard rumours that 3rd party developers will be strongly curtailed for Flight, but those who fit what MS is looking for in terms of aircraft and scenery development will be embraced, but apparently its all up to them.     

Put it this way, if Flight is nothing more than Hawaii, then this shouldn't even be considered the next step in the evolution of flight simulating.

John

Offline FMCS

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 07:42:02 PM »
Exactly, this is BS.   I have heard rumours that 3rd party developers will be strongly curtailed for Flight, but those who fit what MS is looking for in terms of aircraft and scenery development will be embraced, but apparently its all up to them.     

Put it this way, if Flight is nothing more than Hawaii, then this shouldn't even be considered the next step in the evolution of flight simulating.

John

Perhaps that's why "flight simulation" was taken out of the name!  ???

 ;)

Frank


Offline FMCS

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 03:38:16 PM »
X-plane has been released, and here is a link to some impressive pics https://picasaweb.google.com/101666907909842492197/XPlane10LandscapesOfTheWorld... However it's not looking to promising from the first customers! :'( http://forum.avsim.net/topic/355616-screenshotvideo-request/


 >:(

Frank
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 03:42:55 PM by FMCS »

Offline FMCS

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Re: X-plane 10 and the possible AI changes
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 04:04:26 PM »
Doesn't look good for us AI nuts either! Here's a quote from a customer "v10's AI is buggy as h###! With 20 planes it's a total carnage!"   

 >:(


Frank