Author Topic: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?  (Read 839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mosha

  • AIG Honored Members
  • Command Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 7308
  • AIG Dispatch La-Un, Ranong, Thailand.
    • Alpha India Group
Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« on: May 27, 2008, 12:43:50 AM »
I have just seen on the BBC a board meeting scheduled for today has been called off, and that they may be declared bankrupt as early as some time today.

Also http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7420774.stm
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 12:46:38 AM by Mosha »
Regards, Steve

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline rke

  • Senior Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 993
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 01:29:08 AM »
As much respect as I have for those who stands to lose their job over this, I must say that I would serve some of the unions right to see AZ go belly up. They have been fighting Air France-KLM with tooth and nail for quite some time, despite them being pretty much the only option left. Yes, some sacrifices would have had to been made, but years and years of bleeding money ought to have been a relatively clear sign of changes being very much needed!

Offline cnarvaez

  • AIG Dispatch
  • Command Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 2040
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2008, 03:06:24 AM »
As much respect as I have for those who stands to lose their job over this, I must say that I would serve some of the unions right to see AZ go belly up. They have been fighting Air France-KLM with tooth and nail for quite some time, despite them being pretty much the only option left. Yes, some sacrifices would have had to been made, but years and years of bleeding money ought to have been a relatively clear sign of changes being very much needed!

 :rules:
amen
Carlos Augusto Narváez Díaz (SKCL / CLO)
AIG Flightplanner
P3Dv4 User

Offline Mosha

  • AIG Honored Members
  • Command Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 7308
  • AIG Dispatch La-Un, Ranong, Thailand.
    • Alpha India Group
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 05:15:27 AM »
Actually it would be better if they did go under, then re-emerge as a totally new company. Have a maximum of 3 recognised unions. If they are rescued the same old problems will continue to dog them.
Regards, Steve

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline Per Ardua Ad Ars

  • Turbine Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 698
  • C208B-LET410-B1900-DH8C-PA34-PC12, B200 & DA42
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 07:57:00 AM »
I agree completely, Steve. The only way to clear the Alitalia slate is to smash it and pick up another.

I can see the need for unions, particularly in big companies where they have to treat employees as a large group, a resource, if you like, and where its easier not to notice unintended injustices against the workforce. But in fighting the employee's corner, it seems the unions also lose the big picture and end up not making the balance between protecting employee rights and also helping ensure the health of the company. If the company goes TU, what has the union done to protect the employee? Less than zero!

Looks like in this case Alitalia management have been telling the unions "no we can't, the company's finances don't allow <whatever>" and the unions have simply been saying "we don't believe you, cough up or else" - the usual sad story. Its only when the company keels over dead that the unions think, "oh, okay, they were telling the truth after all". Its like the old ducking stool, if the witch drowns, then she wasn't a witch. Oops.

Still, I hope the best staff are picked up by Son Of Alitalia soonest. These are particularly bad times to get shown the door.
Idealogically suspect religious arrogance exterminates life.
Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich. Ustinov.
The sadly-mortal George Carlin on soft language

Offline Mosha

  • AIG Honored Members
  • Command Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 7308
  • AIG Dispatch La-Un, Ranong, Thailand.
    • Alpha India Group
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 01:32:31 AM »
http://uk.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUKL2774645720080527

495 million Euro loss in 2007. Now I'm not sure of this, but if a debt laden business is bought. Don't those debts pass to the new company? Is so who in their right mind would buy such debts?
Regards, Steve

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Offline rke

  • Senior Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 993
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 04:34:53 AM »
I think it depends on how such a sale works, but generally the debt should pass on. Which is why often the price paid can be as little as �/£/$1 - but where the buyer is actually paying off the sellers' debt as well.

Offline rob hirst

  • Turbine Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Arrivederci Alitalia Today?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 07:41:54 AM »
As mentioned, depending on sale, the debt does indeed pass. This is not always an issue if there are sufficient assets which the new owner can a) sell or b) borrow money against to offset the debt. However I don't know whether Alitalia's assets are worth anything. All those MD80's etc are not exactly state of the art. What are they worth on the open market? I imagine due to their poor fuel economy they're worth more as scrap than airframes?

Rob