Author Topic: Ethiopian Max8 crash  (Read 9355 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wingman

  • Prop 1st Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2019, 12:35:52 AM »
GOL Airlines has joined the list of airlines temporarily. The airline operates a fleet of seven (7) 737 MAX 8 aircraft.

Offline Frontier

  • Command Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 2383
  • Independent flightplanner
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2019, 12:38:39 AM »
Says its a stupid addition
The whole 737 MAX is a design flaw full of stupid additions. The engines, the nose-gear strut, MCAS, the lot. Boeing should have designed a proper clean sheet aircraft.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'

"What's next?" Check my Dispatch Status List!

Visit The Flying Carpet Hub for more flightplans and repaints

Offline hawaiianair25

  • Turbine 2nd Officer
  • ***
  • Posts: 212

Offline benclark

  • AIG Dispatch
  • Command Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 2375
    • www.realbigtree.com
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2019, 03:17:22 AM »
Wow just heard about an hour ago. So sad RIP. It’s scary to
Know that 2 similar crashes at roughly same stage of flight ..Lion and Ethiopian , that’s what’s scary. Hopefully investigators get a confirmed answer on both soon. Samoa Airways just replaced  I-NEOS with a MAX9 over a month ago too.

Actually that's not true, I-NEOS is still active and DQ-TFL has not yet been delivered, indeed today it was flying from Seattle to Everett but diverted back to Seattle.

Offline hawaiianair25

  • Turbine 2nd Officer
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2019, 05:34:18 AM »
Oh wow! Thanks for the info benclark

Offline Toohigh

  • Turbine Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 749
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2019, 06:09:49 AM »
The rollout of the first 777 X which was planned for tomorrow,
Will be cancelled because of the 737max incident.


Offline johanfrc

  • Administrator
  • Command Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 18324
    • JCAI
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2019, 08:13:12 AM »
Boeing now says it will update the software for the MAX planes.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane-boeing/boeing-to-upgrade-software-in-737-max-8-fleet-in-weeks-idUSKBN1QT04X

Singapore have also suspended MAX 8 flights and Aerolineas Argentinas have also grounded their fleet.  Vietnam will not license any local airlines to fly the MAX until a cause of the 2 crashes have been found.

And rumors also says Australia have suspended MAX operations into and in the country.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethiopia-airplane/singapore-china-indonesia-ground-boeings-737-max-8-as-concerns-mount-idUSKBN1QT0P1
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 08:20:49 AM by johanfrc »
Regards

Johan Clausen

Offline Johan Nordqvist

  • AIG Marshaller
  • AIG Dispatch
  • Senior Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2019, 08:55:21 AM »
Saw an interview with an airline pilot earlier who says he's pretty sure this is down to MCAS.

Says its a stupid addition that causes more issues than it solves. When shit starts going down and if the pilots panic, its not obvious how to counteract the MCAS.

He predicts it will be ditched if Boeing want to save the MAX.
I don't think the lack of knowledge about MCAS is that much of a factor here. Think about it; MCAS would have manifested itself through uncommanded nose down trim inputs. If you don't know about MCAS, you would assume that you have a runaway stabilizer.

The QRH for the 737NG states the following for a runaway stabilizer:
Quote
Condition: Uncommanded stabilizer trim movement occurs continuously.

AFAIK crews are trained to be able to identify a runaway stabilizer on all 737 models. The memory items for a runaway stabilizer should have prevented any inputs from MCAS.
If the crew was unable to identify this on the MAX, then that could theoretically happen on the other 737 models.

For clarification; runaway stabilizer is the wrong diagnosis, but the memory items would've solved the problem with MCAS nontheless.

Offline rke

  • Senior Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 954
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2019, 09:53:46 AM »
This whole MCAS business is reminding me of the ATR feature that SAS forgot to notify their Mad Dog crews about, which contributed to the SAS crash at Gottröra.

And now the Australian authorities CASA has suspended 737 Max operations, which will only affect Fiji Airways: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/boeing-737-max-8-suspended-operations-australia/10894426

Offline benclark

  • AIG Dispatch
  • Command Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 2375
    • www.realbigtree.com
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2019, 11:43:09 AM »
Saw an interview with an airline pilot earlier who says he's pretty sure this is down to MCAS.

Says its a stupid addition that causes more issues than it solves. When shit starts going down and if the pilots panic, its not obvious how to counteract the MCAS.

He predicts it will be ditched if Boeing want to save the MAX.
I don't think the lack of knowledge about MCAS is that much of a factor here. Think about it; MCAS would have manifested itself through uncommanded nose down trim inputs. If you don't know about MCAS, you would assume that you have a runaway stabilizer.

The QRH for the 737NG states the following for a runaway stabilizer:
Quote
Condition: Uncommanded stabilizer trim movement occurs continuously.

AFAIK crews are trained to be able to identify a runaway stabilizer on all 737 models. The memory items for a runaway stabilizer should have prevented any inputs from MCAS.
If the crew was unable to identify this on the MAX, then that could theoretically happen on the other 737 models.

For clarification; runaway stabilizer is the wrong diagnosis, but the memory items would've solved the problem with MCAS nontheless.
As I understand it manually trimming the aircraft is the correct response to a malfunctioning MCAS, the problem is after 5 seconds if the conditions that caused it to activate remain then the system re-engages itself. You have to physically deactivate automatic trim control and go to the hand wheels to actually stop the system. I'd love to see the current Max handbooks as the descriptions in the media make it sound like this information isn't in them so pilots are unaware.

Offline Tom C.

  • Command Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 3761
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2019, 01:45:59 PM »
Sky News reports the UK has now grounded the Max too.
Can’t post a link on the iPhone
Tom C.

 Veni,           Vidi,        Velcro  
I came,      I saw,    I stuck around...

Once upon a time AFCAD developer!

Offline Johan Nordqvist

  • AIG Marshaller
  • AIG Dispatch
  • Senior Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2019, 01:51:54 PM »
Saw an interview with an airline pilot earlier who says he's pretty sure this is down to MCAS.

Says its a stupid addition that causes more issues than it solves. When shit starts going down and if the pilots panic, its not obvious how to counteract the MCAS.

He predicts it will be ditched if Boeing want to save the MAX.
I don't think the lack of knowledge about MCAS is that much of a factor here. Think about it; MCAS would have manifested itself through uncommanded nose down trim inputs. If you don't know about MCAS, you would assume that you have a runaway stabilizer.

The QRH for the 737NG states the following for a runaway stabilizer:
Quote
Condition: Uncommanded stabilizer trim movement occurs continuously.

AFAIK crews are trained to be able to identify a runaway stabilizer on all 737 models. The memory items for a runaway stabilizer should have prevented any inputs from MCAS.
If the crew was unable to identify this on the MAX, then that could theoretically happen on the other 737 models.

For clarification; runaway stabilizer is the wrong diagnosis, but the memory items would've solved the problem with MCAS nontheless.
As I understand it manually trimming the aircraft is the correct response to a malfunctioning MCAS, the problem is after 5 seconds if the conditions that caused it to activate remain then the system re-engages itself. You have to physically deactivate automatic trim control and go to the hand wheels to actually stop the system. I'd love to see the current Max handbooks as the descriptions in the media make it sound like this information isn't in them so pilots are unaware.
Yes that sounds familiar.

Something about all of this feels out of place. Every MAX-pilot in the world should've been aware of this problem after JT610 crashed. There must be more to this.. Either the pilots failed to follow the procedure or the procedure didn't help. Or the crash was caused by something else all together.

If they failed to follow the procedure, then they can't have received any additional training following JT610, which is insane.

If the procedure didn't help, then obviously there's a major fault in the design which is even worse..

Offline lrog

  • Turbine Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2019, 01:58:00 PM »
UK  CAA stop B737 MAX Flights to and from UK airports and overflights !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47536502

Offline johanfrc

  • Administrator
  • Command Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 18324
    • JCAI
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2019, 02:15:13 PM »
Norwegian have suspended operations temporarily:
https://media.us.norwegian.com/pressreleases/norwegian-temporarily-suspends-flights-with-the-boeing-737-max-following-recommendations-by-european-aviation-authorities-2846632?utm_campaign=send_list

And according to Reuters Oman and Malaysia as countries, have also suspended operations.

Seems like it's getting closer to be only the US airlines that will fly it. But let's see how long that will last.
Regards

Johan Clausen

Offline johanfrc

  • Administrator
  • Command Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 18324
    • JCAI
Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2019, 02:51:07 PM »
Look at my post just 1 above, Johan N. There I already mention it.
Regards

Johan Clausen