Author Topic: Ethiopian Max8 crash  (Read 6380 times)

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Online Ryan1549

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #105 on: March 15, 2019, 04:32:29 PM »
 :groan:


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Offline KampfHase

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #106 on: March 15, 2019, 04:48:48 PM »
We are still talking about a fatal crash which lead to the death of dozens of humans, right?
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Offline ath63

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #107 on: March 15, 2019, 05:18:32 PM »
I keep mine flying. Nobody shall tell me what do do on my own computer, or what to feel.


Offline delta64heavy

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #109 on: March 15, 2019, 07:02:55 PM »

More importantly..


Has anyone removed all the MAXs from their AI traffic yet ??

(hides under desk)

VERY important, indeed  :groan:
Honestly if I had a list to hand of where every MAX 8 (and 9 depending on the nationality) I'd put together a quick set of plans to have them all parked up, would be kinda cool to see.

Edit - Screw it, I've got the production list open on Planespotters and Flightradar for tracking, tonight I'll start making a list of where they all are and try to put something together where they'll all only fly like one TNG a week late at night on a Sunday say. All you'd have to do is take a few seconds to change your atc_parking_types=GATE to iirc PARKING in your MAX 8 cfg file ????

hey benclark, can I get a copy of that when you are done? I want to do the same out respect for everyone that lost their lives in these two tragic crashes.
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Offline sharklet_a319

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Offline Christopher Low

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #111 on: March 18, 2019, 06:01:05 PM »
Why exactly would any certification decisions be passed over to the aircraft manufacturer?

Offline Simbol

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #112 on: March 18, 2019, 07:44:31 PM »
With Boeing willing now to update the MCAS software it makes me wonder, how are they going to avoid a multi billion law sue from these accidents..

S.

Offline tallpilot

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #113 on: March 21, 2019, 05:51:46 AM »
Why exactly would any certification decisions be passed over to the aircraft manufacturer?

Money.  Depending on the political opinions of the speaker the rationalizations given will vary but that doesn't change the underlying reason.

Let's point out that this was not a new type certification process since the aircraft was added to the existing 737 type.  Those are handled with far less regulatory scrutiny compared to a new type certificate.  In order to reduce R&D and certification costs for the manufacturer and pilot training costs for the purchasing operators a great deal of effort is expended to avoid new types whenever remotely possible.  Airbus was eating Boeing's lunch with the NEO so they had to answer with something but were caught relatively flat footed.  (According to my contacts at Boeing the general opinion was the next clean sheet single aisle airliner they designed would be single pilot thus no reason to do anything but tweak the 737 around the edges to eek a few more years out of it.  Ironically this debacle may well set the time frame for passenger acceptance of that concept back significantly).  The 737 was originally meant to be rather small and each attempt to increase its range, size and/or mount larger more efficient engines has added additional engineering kludge beyond the scope of this diatribe but well documented elsewhere. 

There are unfortunately some major irregularities in this case.  The trim authority given to the MCAS system as reported to the certification authorities was found to be inadequate during flight testing and dramatically increased.  That was not reported (likely to prevent a re-run of the risk analysis which could have led to additional pilot training requirements at a minimum if not loss of common type altogether).  That is where I think the attorneys working the civil actions will focus.

The other issue is the dual angle of attack sensors with a comparator in the cockpit should be standard equipment instead of an option.  There should also be indications when the system is active so it is obvious to the pilot that it needs to be turned off if it is trimming nose down unnecessarily.  There might be a good reason not to do it but at first blush I think the system should be deactivated by the same procedure that stops an ordinary trim runaway since that is how the malfunction would feel to the pilot.  The fact that the procedure to deactivate the system didn't even appear in the manual until after the first crash indicates Boeing did not envision this particular failure scenario.

I will point out I am a fan of Boeing's design philosophy over Airbus' but in this case I cannot defend them.

Offline Toohigh

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #114 on: March 22, 2019, 09:25:59 AM »
Garuda Indonesia has canceled an order of 49 737max.

LOT, Enterair and Norwegian have announced to require financial compensation from Boeing because of the groundings.


Aeroflot s lowcoast airline Pobeda may also cancel orders of 30 737max. The government wants them to buy Irkut MS-21 instead.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 03:59:40 PM by Toohigh »


Offline jhaley101

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #116 on: March 25, 2019, 01:45:54 PM »

Offline Simbol

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #117 on: March 25, 2019, 01:52:25 PM »
I read that article and I didn't feel any better to be honest.. having the feeling that even with the updated software this can happen again and the pilots are required to have training and stop it.. makes me feel like I don't want to fly ever on any of the 737-800 Max..

Plus it is not clear if you need to have the required "optional" fail safe sensors that many air carriers haven't purchased.. something here does not look good.

S.

Online Ryan1549

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #118 on: March 25, 2019, 02:35:11 PM »
 :groan: Yes... It sucks that people died, however I would fly on a North American MAX today due to the fact that they have been trained properly how to shut off the MCAS... You cant even reflect the Lion Air mainly on Boeing... That plane was written up the day before but Lion Air DIDNT take it out service... Typical Lion air, putting people lives in danger.. and look what happened


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Offline jhaley101

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Re: Ethiopian Max8 crash
« Reply #119 on: March 25, 2019, 07:48:24 PM »
Hang in there Ryan, I hear you.   

I had no issue with my trips on the max, but let's face it, you get in, you sit down and put on your belt and place your hands on the people up front no matter what aircraft you're on.  I'd like to believe that those people are properly trained and perform the best that they can when an emergency materializes.    I'll say here that the tragic loss of life is horrible and I can't comprehend how you possibly begin to recover from that when you've lost a family member or friend.
Having said that, some people simply won't be able to get past these two events and will do everything to avoid the max.    All I can say is that I'll wait for facts and decide from that whether or not I'll be back on the aircraft again.   I certainly won't base my decision on comments like "something here doesn't look good" and other opinions about the aircraft which have been posted here.   I'd never get on any aircraft if that was the case.