Author Topic: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop  (Read 305 times)

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Offline dandan87

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UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« on: March 17, 2019, 10:42:07 AM »
Hey all.

I have been using UTLive with updated planes (FSP, TFS, FAIB all mipped etc) for the past 6-7 months or so with minimal impact on FPS, lowest I was getting was 40fps at EGLL.

A couple weeks back I decided to start using the OCI and install each airline again (removing them from UTLive) (which were still using the same aircraft I already had.) Yet now the FPS of my sim barely goes above 30 and it's only hitting 15fps at EGLL. I'm just wondering why, despite using the same planes, the FPS is much lower?

Regards,
Dan.

Offline Kaiii3

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 11:11:15 AM »
Is the amount of simulated aircrafts the same?


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Offline dandan87

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 11:48:34 AM »
Same amount of aircraft at EGLL, all assignments correct. It's never every gate has a plane as that's unrealistic. I'm just confused.

Offline jhaley101

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 03:16:20 PM »
Welcome to the forums Dan. 

Question for the moderator, shouldn't this be moved to the appropriate sub-forum?    I don't think it will benefit users of OCI if there are questions that appear in other subforums.   It's only going to continue to lead to more posts here. 



JH

« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 03:18:05 PM by jhaley101 »

Offline benclark

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 08:46:58 PM »
Not knowing how UT Live compiles it's BGL files I'm not sure, honestly separate BGL files and therefore smaller ones SHOULD be more efficient as the sim will be loading less data (note loading less data - displaying visually the same amount), BUT if UT Live compiles it's data before each flight for the route you're flying then it could easily create smaller BGL files, would be interesting to see RAM usage, but this is also just a theory as like I said I honestly don't know how UT Live works having never used UT.

@John, agreed, and so I've moved it to the AI Discussion board.

Offline Dave YVRATC

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 08:47:53 PM »

A couple weeks back I decided to start using the OCI and install each airline again (removing them from UTLive) (which were still using the same aircraft I already had.) Yet now the FPS of my sim barely goes above 30 and it's only hitting 15fps at EGLL. I'm just wondering why, despite using the same planes, the FPS is much lower?


 Almost guaranteed it's due to the sheer number of aircraft within your traffic bubble. UTL doesn't inject anywhere near the number of airplanes that you will get using AIM. Your best bet is to use AIFP and randomize your new AIM bgl traffic as by default they are all added at 1%, this way you can better tailor the traffic percentage to fit your system and needs.

Not knowing how UT Live compiles it's BGL files I'm not sure, honestly separate BGL files and therefore smaller ones SHOULD be more efficient as the sim will be loading less data (note loading less data - displaying visually the same amount), BUT if UT Live compiles it's data before each flight for the route you're flying then it could easily create smaller BGL files, would be interesting to see RAM usage, but this is also just a theory as like I said I honestly don't know how UT Live works having never used UT.


 UTL doesn't actually compile anything or use bgl files, it's all injected into the sim using simconnect.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 08:51:34 PM by Dave YVRATC »

Offline ath63

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2019, 09:56:12 PM »
This is also my experience with EGLL. Having all airlines set to 1% the fps is around 15%, no matter Aerosoft scenery, FTX UK or whatever. The moment I set my AI slider to zero I have 40 fps (my target frame rate). Making all the huge airlines 1 to 100% variable, then setting my AI slider to max 80%, improves things a lot, and there are still tons of planes to see. I cannot understand such basic knowledge is ignored. :)

It's a fact we today also throw more AI into the sim it ever was made to swallow.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 09:58:32 PM by ath63 »

Offline benclark

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 10:37:52 PM »

A couple weeks back I decided to start using the OCI and install each airline again (removing them from UTLive) (which were still using the same aircraft I already had.) Yet now the FPS of my sim barely goes above 30 and it's only hitting 15fps at EGLL. I'm just wondering why, despite using the same planes, the FPS is much lower?


 Almost guaranteed it's due to the sheer number of aircraft within your traffic bubble. UTL doesn't inject anywhere near the number of airplanes that you will get using AIM. Your best bet is to use AIFP and randomize your new AIM bgl traffic as by default they are all added at 1%, this way you can better tailor the traffic percentage to fit your system and needs.

Not knowing how UT Live compiles it's BGL files I'm not sure, honestly separate BGL files and therefore smaller ones SHOULD be more efficient as the sim will be loading less data (note loading less data - displaying visually the same amount), BUT if UT Live compiles it's data before each flight for the route you're flying then it could easily create smaller BGL files, would be interesting to see RAM usage, but this is also just a theory as like I said I honestly don't know how UT Live works having never used UT.


 UTL doesn't actually compile anything or use bgl files, it's all injected into the sim using simconnect.
Ah interesting, see I said I'd never used a UT product, injecting it in using simconnect explains how their blurb talks about the aircraft using the exact SID/STAR's etc that they did/are in the real world. Question there is why would our way of doing things have more planes in the bubble around yourself, both are using real-world schedules so theoretically should match?

Offline johanfrc

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2019, 10:43:16 PM »
Theoretically yes. But maybe UTL don't have all the planes we have in our sims. There might be paints (and planes) missing in UTLive that we have because of freeware (or payware) models. Then we often also have the problem about planes that are just parked for some time (i.e. due to long turnaround) they might be missing in UTLive.

But I have no idea why, because my only experience with UT was back in late FS2002 and early FS2004, before I began installing AI manually.
Regards

Johan Clausen

Offline ath63

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2019, 10:47:28 PM »
If memory serves, UT uses actual flighplan routing with own afcads, while the freeware planes fly DCT (Direct To). They only use FAF (Final Approach Fix) before landing. And they do not use ILS. They just go from FAF to a certain point near the threshold. Jim Vile explained this way back.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 10:50:57 PM by ath63 »

Offline Dave YVRATC

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 12:01:54 AM »
 While UT2/UTL DOES sometimes use flightplans, they are only on some pairings and are exactly what you would get if you used the default flightplanner from FS/P3d and also only use one or two different altitudes worldwide. Better than nothing, but certainly not real. They also don't follow SID's or STAR's, but they will follow a same track type of descent profile/track mimicking a STAR in a way.
 Schedule wise, I'm not sure where the info comes from, but it also doesn't take fleet numbers into account. The sim will inject what it needs to aircraft wise to fulfill the schedule, which also leads to aircraft spawning at the airport even though the arriving aircraft is still enroute or on approach. I've spent a fair bit of time with UT2 and UTL over the years, and even fully setup with my freeware models and repaints, the number of aircraft injected in UTL isn't nearly as high or accurate as using good bgl traffic.
 
 I actually like to try all of the payware AI products to both support the development and also to have a solid comparison to a proper custom setup, and nothing so far comes even close to custom freeware AI. 

Offline ath63

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 12:20:50 AM »
UT was not bad to put it short. But this is an answer from long time ago, where I hated to see white worms from a distance. Today the freeware is no more white worms, and with reduced LOD's - still looking good on top of all that. So me, I go with the freeware, with respect to UT at the same time, for those just wanting to have it all in one simple bang. This has recently changed. AIM/OCI is present, being WOAI resurrected, and for me, perfect.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 12:26:23 AM by ath63 »

Offline benclark

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 03:05:16 AM »
Theoretically yes. But maybe UTL don't have all the planes we have in our sims. There might be paints (and planes) missing in UTLive that we have because of freeware (or payware) models. Then we often also have the problem about planes that are just parked for some time (i.e. due to long turnaround) they might be missing in UTLive.

But I have no idea why, because my only experience with UT was back in late FS2002 and early FS2004, before I began installing AI manually.
Excellent points, I've always avoided payware AI such as UT like a plague, custom AI has and most likely always will be better than any pre-made product like that.

Offline dandan87

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Re: UTLive vs Separate BGL's. Same Aircraft - Huge FPS Drop
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 11:12:28 AM »
Thanks for the help re: randomisation of percentages via AIFP, it has improved my FPS. Didn't realise that AIFP could do that, not used it for a while for obvious reasons.