Author Topic: The interesting tool is in works  (Read 1854 times)

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Offline russian

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2020, 10:49:43 AM »
I would be very skeptical about being able to remove AI from ATC control for a period of time and then re-connect it back in. ATC in the sim follows a linear process. Clearence, ground, tower, dep/app, center, dep/app, tower, ground. The process repeats. As I said earlier,, with Roland's program the only ATC you would hear would be clearence because that is the beginning of the linear process. After that the program would control everything after that until the AI started again back with needing clearence. The simpler the stage of flight the "easier" it may be to control that stage and still maintain some level of ATC interaction. But regarding the in-flight stage, I just think there are way too many variables at play such as altitude restrictions, speed, the sim to have an updated database of all the correct navaids, and the shortcomings of the ATC engine itself.

Don't let me thoughts deter you from doing something though, these are just the things that I see that could be problematic. Best of luck! ::thumbsup::

Offline fs1

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2020, 07:29:59 PM »
I would be very skeptical about being able to remove AI from ATC control for a period of time and then re-connect it back in. ATC in the sim follows a linear process. Clearence, ground, tower, dep/app, center, dep/app, tower, ground. The process repeats. As I said earlier,, with Roland's program the only ATC you would hear would be clearence because that is the beginning of the linear process. After that the program would control everything after that until the AI started again back with needing clearence. The simpler the stage of flight the "easier" it may be to control that stage and still maintain some level of ATC interaction. But regarding the in-flight stage, I just think there are way too many variables at play such as altitude restrictions, speed, the sim to have an updated database of all the correct navaids, and the shortcomings of the ATC engine itself.

Don't let me thoughts deter you from doing something though, these are just the things that I see that could be problematic. Best of luck! ::thumbsup::
It is possible in only between phases, from the first ATC WP until the last ATC WP it is possible - the first WP starts soon after the takeoff, and the last WP is the beginning of the approach. This is what we found till now.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 07:43:26 PM by fs1 »

Offline fs1

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2020, 07:43:58 PM »
I would be very skeptical about being able to remove AI from ATC control for a period of time and then re-connect it back in. ATC in the sim follows a linear process. Clearence, ground, tower, dep/app, center, dep/app, tower, ground. The process repeats. As I said earlier,, with Roland's program the only ATC you would hear would be clearence because that is the beginning of the linear process. After that the program would control everything after that until the AI started again back with needing clearence. The simpler the stage of flight the "easier" it may be to control that stage and still maintain some level of ATC interaction. But regarding the in-flight stage, I just think there are way too many variables at play such as altitude restrictions, speed, the sim to have an updated database of all the correct navaids, and the shortcomings of the ATC engine itself.

Don't let me thoughts deter you from doing something though, these are just the things that I see that could be problematic. Best of luck! ::thumbsup::
It is possible in only between 2 phases, from the first ATC WP until the last ATC WP it is possible - the first WP starts soon after the takeoff, and the last WP is the beginning of the approach. This is what we found till now.

Offline Kaiii3

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2020, 08:28:04 AM »
quick question: Are there any inflight waypoints you are checking?

Offline fs1

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2020, 10:32:18 PM »
Yes, but only ATC waypoints which are different than the AI PDK/Simconnect waypoints.

I will be posting here a link with a build to test early next week.

Regards,

Federico

Offline Kaiii3

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2020, 05:24:34 AM »
different in what way? So when injecting AI Traffic with Waypoints using SimConnect your tool is not reading them?

Offline BruceN

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2020, 06:29:34 AM »
FS creates an internal waypoint that AI aircraft fly towards as a means of guidance along an intended flight path. The waypoints are generated internally along the intended flight path of a loaded flight plan (great circle path between airports).

You can see this in action by using the SDK Traffic Tookbox. The traffic map utility in that SDK shows a basic X-Y plot view of AI aircraft and if you click on one of them, it will show you the details regarding that aircraft along with the plotted path to the next internal waypoint. As you follow the aircraft moving on the plot, it then generates a new waypoint once the AI reaches the current waypoint. This is how AI know to counter crosswinds and find their way along the great circle path with limited deviation.

Offline Kaiii3

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2020, 06:53:36 AM »
ok i see what you mean, but they are more or less Waypoints according to SDK

Offline russian

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2020, 09:19:15 AM »
@Bruce Hence having the coordinates of the airports in FS. Those generated waypoints can be continually generated in the most direct possible way between the departure and arrival airport. The ultimate end waypoint that gets generated is that of the FAF of the intended arrival airport. Once that waypoint is reached the A/C goes from enroute to landing. If you look, you'll also notice some AI change enroute to landing way before the FAF, which is why you'll often get AI contacting tower the tower 30+ miles out.

So with this method of how AI operate in sim from generated waypoint to waypoint, if you want sid/stars/routes, you'll need to specify those waypoints and then find a way to have those become assigned to the AI. And to ultimately have ATC recognize those and use them. (This is something that has been showcased in one of the latest MSFS2020 updates, AI WILL be able to utilize SID/STARS). Again, with Rolands program taking advantage of navdata, the program would automatically assign a SID/ROUTE/STAR based on the active approaches/departures the user had active for any given airport. But at the cost of NO ATC interaction.

Offline fs1

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 11:55:16 AM »
different in what way? So when injecting AI Traffic with Waypoints using SimConnect your tool is not reading them?
Kai, it is as @bruceN mentions.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:56:56 AM by fs1 »

Offline fs1

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2020, 11:59:17 AM »
@Bruce Hence having the coordinates of the airports in FS. Those generated waypoints can be continually generated in the most direct possible way between the departure and arrival airport. The ultimate end waypoint that gets generated is that of the FAF of the intended arrival airport. Once that waypoint is reached the A/C goes from enroute to landing. If you look, you'll also notice some AI change enroute to landing way before the FAF, which is why you'll often get AI contacting tower the tower 30+ miles out.

So with this method of how AI operate in sim from generated waypoint to waypoint, if you want sid/stars/routes, you'll need to specify those waypoints and then find a way to have those become assigned to the AI. And to ultimately have ATC recognize those and use them. (This is something that has been showcased in one of the latest MSFS2020 updates, AI WILL be able to utilize SID/STARS). Again, with Rolands program taking advantage of navdata, the program would automatically assign a SID/ROUTE/STAR based on the active approaches/departures the user had active for any given airport. But at the cost of NO ATC interaction.
Correct. The method overrides internal AI WPs. So you can take over and vector the AI, or put it in a hold and then you just make it fly to the approach or ILS, or wherever you decide and you then release it.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:04:48 PM by fs1 »

Offline simsuper80

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Re: The interesting tool is in works
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2020, 05:12:04 AM »
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/atc-app.447971/#post-847437

there isn't a very good explanation on how to use this. (for example, what are airport indexes)