Author Topic: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results  (Read 81832 times)

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Offline Jan Martin

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Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« on: December 23, 2008, 08:30:43 AM »
Hi Folks :)
 
I decided to provide you with all information you need to design good FDE's for AI aircraft, just read the story to understand the basics and open the website links below:
 
When I started designing AFCADs in fall 2002, typical AI behaviour was taking off from the runway, climbing and landing in a very unrealistic way. Shortly after I joined PAI as an AFCAD designer, someone told me how to tweak that, and I simply started to do it. Later I became the official FDE designer for the PAI models.
 
In FS2002 it was easy and often necessary to move the point of touch down forward or backward, in FS2004 this is nearly impossible and mostly not necessary. It's only one example for the differences of flight behaviour between the FS versions. After the release of FS2004 I had to rework all FDE set's, and later I again sent them to my workshop for a quality improvement. The result were named v5acof FDE's.
 
5 years ago, I found that it is nearly impossible to receive a good AI flight behaviour for all situations of flight simulation, today I'm more experienced, but circumstances haven't changed of course. For example, a B747 must be able to take off from a 7000ft runway, since this happens in real world at some airports. There are many examples for short and frequented runways worldwide. Additionally, many users prefer short braking distances to reduce go-arounds and increase the runway capacity. Every FDE set must consider this. Such base conditions mostly affect the behaviour in different flight situations, like take off speeds, which are mostly close to the upper level, and landing speeds at the lower level therefore. The AI engine does not know climb rate reductions during climb to cruise altitude, climb IAS speeds can be higher than in reality in lower airspace or reduce to unrealistic values the higher the aircraft climbs therefore.
 
Though the situation is much better nowadays, since many AI model designer's have recognized the demand for good FDE's, we still can download models that show a really evil flight behaviour, don't have the tires sitting on the apron correctly or have misplaced lights for example.
 
Today I announce the final development stage v5acofadv FDE's. As you can see on page AI Aircraft Behaviour Table, I have improved take off and landing speeds, also approach speeds and touchdown behaviour is better, and porpoising on final is removed if it occurred. The first 9 sets are for all 5 AIG models, RMAI's A380, and the EAI A319. Download them and 210 FDE sets for other models from section 'Jan's FDE's' of my Website.
 
The AIG B752 and the EAI A319 are available also as AltiPlano derivatives now, marked with AP. Just use the same model files for AltiPlano derivatives, but in separate folders with an 'AP' suffix, select particular aircraft you want to be able to descent to runways in deep valleys, and climb to cruise altitude without flying through mountains after take off. You will need such AltiPlano derivaties definately for ZUNZ Linzhi Tibet (AIG B752 AP CCA Air China) and for VQPR Paro Bhutan (EAI A319 AP DRK DrukAir). These FDE sets allow higher VSI values at a cost of more unrealistic speeds and runway length's, but of course you'd have to change and recompile the flightplans.
 
If you want to try FDE tweaking on your own, choose an airport at sea level, set all scenery display sliders to minimum, set wind speed to minimum and use clear weather conditions, deactivate all other AI traffic, and make sure your test aircraft flies curves shortly after take off and before final. Thus you can see how your test aircraft flies in all possible flight situations. You can do most changes with a texteditor, but for changing the *.air files you'll need a program like AirEd.
 
Open page AI FDE Settings - Changes & Results, and you'll get a very useful table that shows everything you change in flight behaviour by changing one single of the 12 basic parameters in the 'aircraft.cfg' file. Also information on the other parameters is provided below.
 
An important note: I don't recommend to use my FDE set's - which made for AI purposes - for user aircraft, because the AI engine does not work like pilots! A lot of additional settings have to be tweaked, for steering, wheel damping, the inertias, center of gravity and more! Also, I generally don't recommend the use of other addons which affect AI, and there is a lot availabe; final approach separation, taxiing speed, and - as I've learned now - even lights addon's.
 
Btw: there is a mirror of my website - as all know who read my readme's .
 
Regards Jan
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 05:58:10 PM by joshua dean »

Offline vc-10

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 04:56:28 PM »
I'm no FDE designer (I've no idea how anything works..), but would it be possible for the AntiPlano planes to simply use a different .air file, changed in the sim= section of the aircraft.cfg?

But anyway, thanks a huge amount for this, it seems like quite an effort!

PS is there any chance you could help doing a CFG for my EMB?

Offline EDDK

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 05:13:14 PM »
wow this sounds very promising, many thanks indeed Jan. But the links aren't achievable right now  :-[
Regards, Philippe

Offline M-Sauce

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 06:05:01 PM »
Well Jan, thank you for fixing my 767-300 problem. I had started a post to see if anyone was experiencing the same as me (767 nosewheel digging in to the ground about half a foot), and it looks like you fixed it with your FDE and CFG.

I do have one problem. I am using your FDE and CFG for the BN-2 Islander. It behaves great and realistically as AI, but I think your settings have done something weird to the lights settings for Shockwave lights. I am using the ones from this website, as are many other I'm sure, and now my islander lights sit a few feet behind their intended postions on the model. The aircraft also seems to steer about its rear wheels, almost as if it had rear wheel steering.

I can live with the steering bit, but is there any chance you might come up with shockwave light settings that match the model??

Mariano  ::cheers::
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Offline Andy

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 06:42:39 PM »
Sounds like the center of gravity setting in the CFG has been moved rearward.
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Offline Tom C.

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 08:14:50 PM »
Seems the website is down for the moment Jan.
Looking forward to getting these files soon as its back.
Tom C.

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Offline Jan Martin

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 09:53:33 PM »
Hi M-Sauce & Folks :)
 
I've edited the initial post by adding something at the bottom, that should answer your questions.
 
Regards Jan
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 09:00:25 AM by Jan Martin »

Offline EDDK

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2008, 11:12:16 AM »
hmm.. too bad I don't want to abandon on my shockwave lights  :(

Regards, Philippe

Offline M-Sauce

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2008, 11:24:21 AM »
Yeah Jan, Shockwave lights are quite popular. They really add to the models.

By the way, I've figured out the BN2. I'm using Jan's .AIR file and Aircraft.cfg file, but I cut and pasted the original [WHEIGHT & BALANCE] and [CONTACT POINTS] back into the cfg file. This allows the aircraft to TO and Land like a BN-2, but it still steers like an airplane and the shockwave lights look normal now.

Mariano  ::cheers::
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Offline Klemen

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2008, 11:51:05 AM »
Btw I found out that Shockwave lights take 2-3FPS on my system (when I turn the lights on)  :reaction:

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Offline Danny

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2008, 02:22:39 PM »


In FS2002 it was easy and often necessary to move the point of touch down forward or backward, in FS2004 this is nearly impossible

It is actually possible and not difficult at all. Try changing flap settings, particularly flaps drag.

Additionally, many users prefer short braking distances to reduce go-arounds and increase the runway capacity. Every FDE set must consider this.

Some users do, others don't. I strongly disagree with the philisophy of Ai aircraft landing short and hard and exiting rwy via first taxiway. I want my AI to land as close as possible as aircraft in real life.

As you can see on page AI Aircraft Behaviour Table,
Sorry to be a moaner but A318 rotation speed of 220kts?  ::surprise::
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 02:33:02 PM by Danny »

Offline Klemen

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 03:18:32 PM »
Just to include my 2 cents, Ai landing distance should be long as much as aircraft needs to first real taxiway out - should not be too long, but to exit after 700m of touchdown is too short. I can tell for Ljubljana, aircrafts normaly vacate via G taxiway which is like 1700m from the runway beginning. but I often see AI planes to vacate via F which is 800m before, os just 900 from the beginning of the runway, much unreal. The same in Frankfurt as planes vacate via second taxiway on that runway.

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Offline Mike...

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 07:51:06 PM »
Additionally, many users prefer short braking distances to reduce go-arounds and increase the runway capacity. Every FDE set must consider this.

Some users do, others don't. I strongly disagree with the philisophy of Ai aircraft landing short and hard and exiting rwy via first taxiway. I want my AI to land as close as possible as aircraft in real life.

Ditto. AI should use realistic runway exits, speeds, and 'braking'.
Mike..

Offline Andy

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 07:56:47 PM »
Problem is - the closer we get to real world performance figures, the closer we get to absolute pandemonium at large airports in FS.

Striking a good balance between the pair, now that would be fantastic.
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Offline vc-10

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Re: Get Proper FDE Set's - AI FDE Settings Changes & Results
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 08:04:07 PM »
Well, having realistic performance and no pandemonium would be best.. if only the FS AI engine could handle it!